Re: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death

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Subject: Re: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death
rggoldenberg@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Date: Sun Dec 20 2009 - 14:26:21 EST



In "The Beginnings of Jewishness" Shaye Cohen points out that the ban on gentiles in the Temple was virtually unenforceable and depended on voluntary compliance.  Who could possibly monitor the enormous crowds that gathered and check their credentials as Jews?  Who carried such credentials ("government-issued photo ID?") in the first place?  Perhaps men could be checked for circumcision at miqva'ot near the Temple precinct, but even so the sheer magnitude of the problem must have been overwhelming.
 
And the same can be said even of those known to be Jews; the laws of purity are generally a matter of voluntary compliance.  Who knows which men have recently emitted semen or which women just finished menstruating or which men have sat on such women's furniture?  (Tzar'at was presumably a different story.)
Robert Goldenberg
Professor of History and Judaic Studies
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-4348

(631) 632-7484

-----owner-ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU wrote: -----

To: "First Century Judaism Discussion Forum" <ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU>
From: Dwight Swanson <dswanson@nazarene.ac.uk>
Sent by: owner-ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU
Date: 12/20/2009 01:07PM
Subject: Re: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death

Public inscriptions were a commonplace in the ancient world--cf the
stele in Assyria and Egypt. One has to see some setting in which these
were read out publicly, and in a didactic manner.

Regarding recoginising an uncircumcised male--cf Paul's problem in Acts
21, where 'Jews from the province of Asia' had seen an Ephesian
companion of Paul in the city. There seemed to be ways of knowing.
Further, however, the prominence of miqvaoth at and near the entrances
to the temple suggest it was, indeed, possible to demonstrate one's
circumcision...

ds

Kenneth Litwak wrote:
> David,
>  
>   Thanks for the information.  So given that the inscription did indeed exist, it leaves open the question of why, since on the view of most, neither Jews nor Gentiles could read and therefore the inscription would have no value.
>  
>    In addition to that, I've often wondered how one would know that an uncircumcised male had entered the Court of Israel and how one would recognize a Gentile woman from a Jewish woman.  Particularly for men, it creates images of someone requiring men to demonstrate that they were circumcised.
>  
>  
> Ken Litwak
> Kenneth D. Litwak, Ph.D.
> Azusa Pacific University
> 901 E. Alosta Ave.
> Azusa, CA 91702
>
> ________________________________

--
Dwight D Swanson, PhD
Senior Research Fellow and
Senior Lecturer in Biblical Studies
Nazarene Theological College
Manchester, England
www.nazarene.ac.uk


From klitwak@apu.edu Sun Dec 20 19:31:48 2009 Received: from rain-39.CC.Lehigh.EDU ([128.180.39.20]:48572 "EHLO rain.cc.lehigh.edu") by astro.CC.Lehigh.EDU with ESMTP id ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:31:47 -0500 Received: from e1.fs.apu.edu (e1.apu.edu [199.184.237.157]) by rain.cc.lehigh.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBL0VkDt004992 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:31:46 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:29:24 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: References: <0KRU008YA2IF9Y20@mxout3.netvision.net.il> <6FFE6BE605DE412FB267532B4BE05549@lizfried> From: "Kenneth Litwak" To: , "First Century Judaism Discussion Forum" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at rain.cc.lehigh.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score version2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on eddie2.cc.lehigh.edu X-Envelope-To: <"|/home/listproc/bin/Catmail -L IOUDAIOS-L -f"> (uid 0) X-Orcpt: rfc822;ioudaios-l@listserv.cc.lehigh.edu Liz and Others, Thanks. I was not really seeking to argue that such an inscription did not exist but if the arguments for a low literacy rate are correct, it seems puzzling that such a thing would have been provided because hardly anyone (only 4 people out of 100 in Stanley's reckoning) could even read. So first, thanks to all who have told me where I could find the inscription. Second, doesn't its existence suggest that the ability to read had to be above 4% if it was to be meaningful? Ken Litwak Kenneth D. Litwak, Ph.D. Azusa Pacific University 901 E. Alosta Ave. Azusa, CA 91702 ________________________________ From: owner-ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU on behalf of Lisbeth S. Fried Sent: Sun 12/20/2009 5:39 AM To: First Century Judaism Discussion Forum Subject: RE: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death Hi Ken, I saw an inscription of this nature at the Archaeological Museum in Istanbul. It was on the third floor, a floor dedicated entirely to antiquities from Israel. It was there along with the Siloam inscription, the Ta'anach incense altar, and others. The inscription was in Greek warning gentiles away from the temple mount. I wasn't reading Greek at the time I saw it, so I won't swear to it's contents, but that was the gist. Liz Fried Ann Arbor -----Original Message----- From: owner-ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU [mailto:owner-ioudaios-l@Lehigh.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Litwak Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 6:22 PM To: First Century Judaism Discussion Forum Subject: Jerusalem Temple Inscription Warning Gentiles of Death After a quick check of a few scholarly articles, I have two questions about the warning to Gentiles about not entering the Temple, or rather, the Court of the Women, on pain of death. First, although I read multiple references to this being an inscription and a discussion of the significance of he inscription, I did not see anyone say that we possess physical evidence of this inscription. It appears rather that this was recorded by Josephus but we have no epigraphic evidence of it. So, given this situation, first, is there any good reason to think that such an inscription actually existed? Second, if Christopher Stanley is correct, and literacy was down around 4% (and although I think he is wrong, it appears that the guild in general thinks he is right or close to it), it seems highly unlikely that anyone, except perhaps a few scribes, entering the temple would be able to read this or any other inscription, so what would be the point of it? How could a Gentile be held accountable for something that virtually no one entering the temple could read since hardly anyone in the culture at all could read, based on Stanley's account? Ken Litwak Kenneth D. Litwak, Ph.D. Azusa Pacific University 901 E. Alosta Ave. Azusa, CA 91702


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